When Benjamin "Ben" Snavely, a friend whose journey through sobriety and personal discovery has been nothing short of transformative, rejoined me on the podcast, the air buzzed with revelations of growth and the quest for meaning. We've both navigated the tumultuous seas of life's transitions, from the end of relationships to the embrace of solitary paths, and in sharing these experiences, we traverse the landscapes of perseverance, peace, and the pitfalls of a society addicted to distraction. Ben's candid discussion of his move from hedonism to tranquility mirrors our collective need for inner stillness in a world that can't seem to stop spinning.
Our conversation wades through the profound impacts of meditation on our perception, connecting us to the present in ways we often overlook, akin to the awe of witnessing nature's grandeur. We grapple with the philosophical implications of quantum physics and the grounding experiences of spiritual exploration, touching on how substances like cannabis can sometimes catalyze a deeper understanding of self and reality. This episode isn't just a chat; it's a foray into the essence of consciousness and how we shape our realities through the lens of our experiences.
Wrapping up, we venture into an array of topics: the influence of expectations in relationships, the nuanced dance of parenting, and the formative power of memories. We share stories from the front lines of coaching youth sports, the journey of emotional navigation, and the absolute necessity of self-acceptance and forgiveness. Ben and I also examine personal growth, the resilience needed to face financial challenges, and the delicate balance between contentment and the drive to create. Join us for an honest, multifaceted discussion about confronting adversity and celebrating the growth that emerges from it.
When Benjamin "Ben" Snavely, a friend whose journey through sobriety and personal discovery has been nothing short of transformative, rejoined me on the podcast, the air buzzed with revelations of growth and the quest for meaning. We've both navigated the tumultuous seas of life's transitions, from the end of relationships to the embrace of solitary paths, and in sharing these experiences, we traverse the landscapes of perseverance, peace, and the pitfalls of a society addicted to distraction. Ben's candid discussion of his move from hedonism to tranquility mirrors our collective need for inner stillness in a world that can't seem to stop spinning.
Our conversation wades through the profound impacts of meditation on our perception, connecting us to the present in ways we often overlook, akin to the awe of witnessing nature's grandeur. We grapple with the philosophical implications of quantum physics and the grounding experiences of spiritual exploration, touching on how substances like cannabis can sometimes catalyze a deeper understanding of self and reality. This episode isn't just a chat; it's a foray into the essence of consciousness and how we shape our realities through the lens of our experiences.
Wrapping up, we venture into an array of topics: the influence of expectations in relationships, the nuanced dance of parenting, and the formative power of memories. We share stories from the front lines of coaching youth sports, the journey of emotional navigation, and the absolute necessity of self-acceptance and forgiveness. Ben and I also examine personal growth, the resilience needed to face financial challenges, and the delicate balance between contentment and the drive to create. Join us for an honest, multifaceted discussion about confronting adversity and celebrating the growth that emerges from it.
Welcome to the driftwood podcast. This is Daniel the wizard. Back at it again, and today we got Benjamin Snavely.
Speaker 2:Hey everybody, I'm doing well.
Speaker 1:Pretty good, you're actually gonna hear me call him Ben a lot because that's how I reference him. But right before we came on I actually asked him how do you want me to introduce yourself, not introduce yourself, how do you want me to introduce you? And he's like and he said, benjamin Snavely. I was like he was wait, are we not doing last names? I was like, yeah, we can do last names. I mean, I call myself the wizard and they haven't gone to Bible study and they always, when they get in, like dude, ron and me and stuff like that, are like we know that you're don't think you're a wizard. So it's just really funny anyways. So how you doing Ben?
Speaker 2:I'm doing, well, I'm doing well, oh, no problem, man.
Speaker 1:We've been trying to actually arrange this for a while. It's been a long time, yeah. So I mean the last time I was like almost three years, three years since I recorded with you. Yeah, because it was me and David and you and Tony.
Speaker 2:Yep. So it was a different location and different circumstances. Many different things from then to now, oh same for me.
Speaker 1:I've had another kid Congratulations. Yeah, she's three now she turned three in November.
Speaker 2:Okay, she'll basically. The very next day is when it happened.
Speaker 1:Pretty much. So yeah, no, so we're both single men now.
Speaker 2:Yes, and we weren't three years ago.
Speaker 1:No absolutely not. I was in the thralls of a relationship that is recently subsided, which I don't know how that's gonna turn out, but it'll turn out. However it turns out, you're gonna have to probably get closer to the mic.
Speaker 2:I shall here. I am Close as I can be, yeah, so if you get uncomfortable, we need to take a break.
Speaker 1:We can also do that too, not uncomfortable, I'm just.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to listen, to hear.
Speaker 1:And if I need to adjust anything as far as sound or anything like that.
Speaker 2:Just let me know we're good, but anyway so yeah, our life.
Speaker 1:Life has been substantially different. The, the, the route of the podcast has been completely different too, because obviously David's not here anymore and all these things, and so, man, it's just been. It's been a while. I'm actually surprised that I'm still doing the podcast, from, being real honest with you, you know how easy it would have been to just stop.
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean that's with anything it's easier to stop, but most things in my life.
Speaker 1:I've quit, like it gets too hard, or it gets too overwhelming, or it gets to whatever adjective. Adjective is the right thing, right, anyways? A descriptor.
Speaker 2:Any way I would describe it, which are adjectives?
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, so any adjective that I could come up with. Yeah, that would be my excuse for quitting Right. And so there's been a lot of change in me because of, like, maybe I haven't been disciplined, maybe I haven't been consistent, but I haven't quit, and I think that there's something to that. It's meant enough for me to still fight and to keep going through it, to keep trying even after all, my stuff got stolen even after David. David stopped being with me like it obviously became harder, but yeah, well, that's the thing you.
Speaker 2:You don't quit and you decide what you don't quit with and some things you may want to quit, like smoking or drinking or lying to yourself or whatever. I'm gonna move the mic a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes maybe that is better. So, yeah, you talking about that, you're on a, you're on a trip of sobriety right now.
Speaker 2:I just started it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you said what? Two weeks in?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, my birthday was January 10th. It's the 26th right now, I think. Yes, the 26th, okay. So on the ninth, I purposely got drunk and I knew exactly what I was doing. I enjoyed myself and then, on the very next day, I decided to just go healthy. I walked, I went to bed at like 9 30, you know I meditated and I was just like I'm just gonna do this because I've had so many years of drinking and doing drugs and just like living you know a crazy extravagant life, and I'm just like I'm ready to do the opposite.
Speaker 1:You finally want to grow up. Exactly, it's kind of what it seems like Own it.
Speaker 2:you know and understand what it means to just like sit in reality, because most of the time we're trying to escape it. We're looking at our phones where you know, even having conversations like we're constantly looking for some type of pinging to basically distract us from ourselves.
Speaker 1:We'll get that little dopamine hit, right, yeah. And so I have on my whiteboard written at the house it says peace over pleasure and that's kind of been my motto for the year, like I started the year and I'm because so much of my life has been pleasure seek, right so, the satisfaction of these things that would be deemed pleasurable, like drinking or doing drugs or they're doing anything like that, something that would give that like that.
Speaker 2:I guess the dopamine hit Just sitting and watching TV. Even that yeah.
Speaker 1:I've cut out. So I mean I don't even really watch TV anymore. I couldn't even tell you the last episode of anything other than I watched, the Chosen. But that's only because I chose to, and that was actually kind of hard to do because I felt like I was wronging myself by watching TV but also watching stuff about God. I was just like that's all right.
Speaker 2:But also this idea that it's wrong to be laxadaisical, to be relaxed to, to go into a comfort state, and I think that's a lie of capitalism. This idea that we shouldn't be idle, and if you are like idle, then you're lazy. How? Let's just get out of society.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna raise my hand because I've been dealing with that for a long time.
Speaker 2:There's no purpose to life and it's just what you make it. And here we are in this. You know, dog eat dog kind of society where you know you have to have not just a job, you have to have a side hustle, and you always have to be doing something, and so it's just yeah, sitting is nice, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think that that's kind of the state that I'm in too is because of all the changes that have happened in my life, with me and Cheyenne splitting and stuff like that, I've actually had to. I don't even. I don't have a job either, right, so I've had to sit in silence. Kids are at school all day and I've had to find ways to be okay and not rely on the dopamine hit and so, if I'm being honest, it was very hard at first because I was sad, bro. I was so sad. I was sad I didn't have a job. I was well at first. Actually, I was focusing on coaching, so I was really motivated to that and you still are right.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, of course, but I'm not dealing with the emotions. Still, it's like this is the funny thing once you're processing and grieving.
Speaker 1:Yeah, once you decide to start intentionally trying to help others. Like once, once you pursue that life kind of throws you a curve ball and says oh you're, you think you're about it, let's see. Let's see if you really are kind of like this podcast stuff. It's like, so I had to. I've had to recalibrate a couple times and doing it because I do know so, like if you said something about purpose or life, the meaning of life or whatever, a lot of the meaning of life, I believe, is just perception. I actually think that there's no actual meaning to life.
Speaker 1:I agree, other than the ways that we define things and the way that I see the world is that my purpose is to help people come to peace, help people heal, and it's like I've been given skills and gifts throughout, like if I think about the things that have always shown up for me, if I think about, like, where am I normally? What do I do regularly? What is it that I find myself doing when nothing matters? That's where my purpose was, and so the thing that I've even in school and all this stuff I've probably said this on the podcast a couple times. It was I've always talked to people. I've always helped them through their problems, but see, when I was a teenager, that helped me avoid my problems right, so I would talk to them about theirs and I'm like oh.
Speaker 1:Daniels, doesn't matter. I got a really bad habit of people pleasing, so, yeah, that's the the way that I see purpose, because it is defined by the way that we perceive the life that we're living, and I think a lot of people have difficulty finding purpose well, I think a lot of people just simply go down the pipeline of the education system because one that's like free daycare to work.
Speaker 2:The adults are so busy working. What other choice do we have? So you go through this system that is tailored to everybody. Therefore it's for nobody and well, I mean corporate owners, you know. I mean it's for them, just so we can be like, yes, sir, no, ma'am, whatever, but it doesn't. Once you get through that and you do everything and you get the house, and you get the job, and you get the diploma, and you get the kids, and you get the you know the 401k and you get all of these things, you're still empty and you're still searching and you're like, well, okay, that did not fulfill me, that did not satisfy me, what else is there?
Speaker 2:so then you go and you do all the I don't know. Let's say, you get the divorce and you get midlife crisis, you do the sex and you do the drugs and you do the partying and you do the traveling and you do the, you know, searching for the hobbies, and those are better and those are more fulfilling, but it's still a distraction to what you have been not putting effort towards, which is understanding yourself and who you are and what that is all about, and sitting in silence and being okay with not doing anything, because that's when the whole world just surrenders to you.
Speaker 1:Uh-huh, sitting in silence, it's not even see, and I think that there's a misconception about not doing anything either. It's like that doesn't mean sitting on the couch playing on your phone. It literally means sitting there doing absolutely nothing, not even thinking not how it's exactly. You took the words out of my mouth, not even thinking, and so you said that you meditated the other day. So what is it that you actually get out of the meditation? Because I've I've gone through different channels of meditation in different times it served me differently.
Speaker 1:Now it's serving me vastly differently than what it used to so I want to use other people's words.
Speaker 2:Through all the books that I've read throughout the years and all of this metaphysical stuff, it's like when you go to a vista and you're on the cliffs and you're looking out and you see the sunset, and you see, you know, the ocean it's just a gorgeous view and you just are stupefied, you're in awe, right. You finally feel that you belong. In that moment of time, right, everything just kind of stops and you finally feel there mm-hmm right yeah okay, that's what meditation does.
Speaker 2:When you can quiet out everything else, it is the closest thing to like you being to yourself. You know, it's like right now we're in this projection state and so we're doing what we think we're supposed to be doing for society and friends and family and all that and that kind of like pushes ourself outside of ourself, out of like the true essence of ourself.
Speaker 2:And then when you finally sit, it's like that reverberation you just get stiller and stiller and stiller and like that silhouette of yourself finally gets into the essence of who you actually are and is not reverberating wildly in the space of yourself, and so meditation, for me, gets you closer to God, which is just being truly just in the moment, which is with your true self.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all of these things are internal. Yes, every thing that we experience is internal, everything it's so, like even me touching a wall, my experience of that wall being touched. It's an internal thing it's me feeling it inside. It's not the wall actually being there. That's what. That's what makes these things a projection, because the assigned value is based upon what we say or what we think, because if we had no way to describe me touching a wall, what is it?
Speaker 2:mm-hmm, and you go even deeper and you want quantum physics or quantum mechanics or you read all about it. You're actually not even touching it. Yeah, you're not touching anything at all. You just get an electrical signal to say that it is next to you and it feels like it is there.
Speaker 1:It's so hard it's the other thing too.
Speaker 2:It's like if it's not observed it's not there like yes, so if you think about like a video game.
Speaker 1:So like, if this is a pretty good, I think a good like articulation of you think about a video game if you have an ex the parts of the mat where you aren't at, they're not there, right, because you're not perceiving them being there.
Speaker 1:They don't need to be loaded into the system because you're not there yet to experience that exactly so it's only when you get into that area does it load, and then you get to experience it so one thing that I used to like to mess with people with and I still do sometimes it's like there is a mathematical chance that I can punch a wall and actually go through it without damaging it at all, without touching it because, everything is in motion and if all of the particles move at the exact right way at the exact right time with me and with that I can actually go through it.
Speaker 1:And then I was watching the movie flash the other day. Okay, and so in the movie he actually vibrates through the wall. I'm like, oh my god that's exactly what I'm talking about the idea that I mean.
Speaker 2:If all of your trillions and trillions of cells are alive and then they are individual, then the question is is could you give them, could you somehow understand their individual consciousness or give it that, give that to them and have them to separate and move and dematerialize, and therefore you go through the wall, because that's all you're asking all of your cells to do in unison yeah is to simply move in a different form.
Speaker 1:Just slide past the thing it's going past yes, really all you're doing yes, and that's see, that's wild. And look, I'm gonna be honest with you, before I started smoking weed, I never thought about things like that.
Speaker 1:But see, I started exploring these different ideas of like what we're talking about is like okay, and it's like maybe I had these thoughts, but I would never really give them much like weight, weight because it was like oh, that's gobbledygook right but in going through these things and then starting to try to understand spiritual things right, because that was really important to me is to understand spiritual stuff, because I felt spiritually empty, and so then I would try to connect to the quote higher self and then trying to understand all of this stuff. Within me, it's like, oh, you read something or see something that says, oh, all of these things are a projection, like no, because it's there. I actually had a conversation with James Persley's been a guest on the podcast like seven times. I had an argument with them. I say a conversation, argument, whatever. He got a little bit upset because I would not take that. He's like this wall is here, it's here.
Speaker 1:I said but prove it because it's right. Yes it. That's not proof, though that's not proof to me that that is actually there well, I mean, you can't you.
Speaker 2:How do you describe it like? For example, they have now created a water jug that be when you drink the water, it will. The water will taste like like orange juice or soda or coffee or whatever, because they found out that taste is 70% through the nose, through the smelling, and so there is some smell right before you drink it. That turns the water in your brain to a different taste, and it tastes just like the thing that they want you to take.
Speaker 1:So well it was just water.
Speaker 2:And so what do we actually know about truth and the idea that just by touching something, you say it's there, when scientists have proven that we are looking at everything upside down and the way it comes into our eyes is turned, and then our brain turns it upside down? And they have also proven that your brain cannot distinguish a difference between a thought and reality. And they've done this test where they just simply say close your eyes, now picture a lemon, now take a bite of that lemon. Immediately your mouth will water because it does not know the difference then of the thought of you taking a bite of that lemon and you actually have an actual lemon and see that is based upon the experience that you've had.
Speaker 1:If you've never had a lemon, you couldn't do that mm-hmm you wouldn't know what responses you would have, right? And so it's this, this mind. Our mind is such this wild place because, like I, can decide I don't like something before I eat it, and sure enough, I won't like it yep, but the other thing to do it all the time absolutely and so like.
Speaker 1:Then you could decide that like okay, this makes me feel better right okay, so I'm gonna do that because it makes me feel it's the meaning that I assigned to it that I find value in. And if I want things to actually be different for me, I have to change my meanings. And this is goes back to trauma, childhood trauma, things like that.
Speaker 1:You have to redefine the meanings because me feeling abandoned, me feeling hurt, abused, me feeling all of these- things unheard, yeah, not seen and so If I now go back, if I look at purpose, if you will, if I now I go back and I think, oh, my mom's death actually served me as opposed to hurting me. Maybe I went through some hurt for a while for it. But then I was faced with my own crisis of life where I was trying to myself, you know, and then the thought that came to my mind in this moment was like I don't want to make the same choice my mom made. And so now I'm thinking like I said thank you, Because now I know something different to do, right? So I redefined what that meant to me, based upon what I was going through.
Speaker 2:Well, you talk about childhood trauma and then you also talk about perspective and it truly is the way your life will go. Is the perspective you hold? There's a lovely little story on you know. There's these two children and their father is an alcoholic. And so years later, one of the children is now an adult and he's just a washed out drunk and you know he's gone through divorces and courts and DUIs and in and out of jail and maybe a little sin of you know just domestic violence or robbery or whatever it's. Just it has not turned out the way he wanted because he just pended on the bottle too much.
Speaker 2:And you ask him hey, why are you like this? And he would say my dad was an alcoholic. And then his other brother is the exact opposite of this and he's successful and he has a happy life and a happy wife and family and kids. And you know he's part of the community and he's a patron of the arts and you know he's well educated and well received and charismatic and all of these things. And you're like how are you like this? Why are you like that? And he's like my dad's an alcoholic. And you just, whatever happens to you, you can't control what happens to you, but you can control how you decide to deal with the situation and it's just a nice little story to be like. You're always in control.
Speaker 1:So the circumstances were the same for each people, right, but their perception of what those circumstances caused them to do, right. So if I perceive the I've dealt with CPTSD and all these crazy things, right. But if I look at it and I think about, like this has been something that I've been doing the last couple of months since my wife left me, it's like what does that mean for me? Because I held on to it for so long, and I think that that damages the relationship too, because it was hurt and I carried around that hurt and so I dealt with things with pain, like I'm walking around with the pain of this hurt. And so then I start looking at it again. I'm like, oh wait, my dad, he did the best that he actually could. Me expecting something different is a little bit unfair.
Speaker 1:Because, I believe now that everyone shows up the best way that they possibly can at any given moment, and if I expect different, that's my expectations, not theirs. And then that leads me into what I did a live stream about. Today is judgment, and when you make like judgments of other people, if you judge someone else and you say, hey, you're not doing good enough, you're not doing what you're supposed to. And let's take the example of the alcoholic and the father, the father being the alcoholic and the son the son that failed blames. The expectation was that his father was going to be different. But also, maybe the other guy had an expectation that the father would be different, but I would guarantee you the guy that went through all of these other things was living a life, would have the perspective of. That's just who he was.
Speaker 2:And it doesn't have to define me. So one of those choices, even if they hurt me, do not have to define me.
Speaker 1:And that's where I find myself in my circumstance right now, because I've had to deal with that, because I don't want to blame my separated wife, my strange wife, because we're not divorced or anything yet. So it's still, you know, I guess, up in the air because nobody's filed anything. But I can't allow the things that have happened to define me Right. It's not who I am, it's just something that has happened.
Speaker 2:It's just. It's just simply one experience that is in the current realm of your reality. You go back. You weren't a father. You go back. You weren't married. You go back, you weren't. You know, whatever your accolades are in the past, you know this certificate, that certificate, that diploma, that certification, that traveler, that you know. Whatever artist, whatever. You go farther back, you're just a baby with potential and how do you define it, how do we define it?
Speaker 1:And that is the shape of our world, how we define these things.
Speaker 2:Well, and another thing is sometimes things are defined for us because we are obviously from a lineage, so things came before us.
Speaker 2:We are, we walk on the ruins of our ancestors and the past, and so a lot of things are already here in place that get adopted to us, and then, through our own life and experience, we have to decide what to hold on to and what to shed. A lot of people don't get the courage, though, to shed certain things, even if they don't agree with them, because of what they call society standards or saving face, or you know, the idea of shame and guilt to people that we care about, and I think it's everybody's journey to decide what works for them and what doesn't, and whatever people have given you their burden, their pain, their history, their lineage, their culture, their religion, you know their knowledge, their racism, their whatever. You have to decide for yourself. Do I want to carry this with me? Does it?
Speaker 2:Is this who I want to be, because it will eventually define you, and so you have to decide and mold yourself, because if you don't make yourself, as Incubus says, someone else will make you for yourself. So you might as well do it yourself.
Speaker 1:And that's where accountability comes into play, right? So if you just aimlessly wander through the world, the world will shape you however the world wants you. And it's based upon, like you said, all the lineage, all the things that came before you that you didn't even know, that you were indoctrinated into. You didn't choose to believe this, you were, you picked it up. So, like, think about, like, car car culture in Texas.
Speaker 2:Compared to New York, most kids under the age of 25 don't have a car here. By the time you're 16, you're already driving.
Speaker 1:Yeah, most of them drive.
Speaker 2:Yes, and so just that idea that we live in a car centric society. And so then why don't we have sidewalks everywhere where we make it easy, and then you see people, then it's a judgment. Why don't the people who only use trans public transportation are of a lower social economic class? And so then we view it as oh, I don't want to be a part of that, I don't want that to be associated with me, and so then I don't want to support it, because then the riffraff keeps on getting closer and closer to me and I want to keep it farther away, and that's how the suburbs are created, and the suburbs are needed for cars. We want to keep the riffraff away, and so and all of this is just already there and ingrained into us, and we didn't, we had simply created rules and laws and and legislation to allow car culture to kill the tight knit community and city and we didn't have to do that and we don't have to do that in the future.
Speaker 2:We did do that and there are some cities that are, you know, putting way more greenery, walking space, biking paths and all of that. It's still better in some places and Should be better in other places.
Speaker 1:Yeah, of course, but see, like I would see that the as you described, that I see those all, all those thoughts and decisions were based upon judgment.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm right.
Speaker 1:A judgment of this is bad or this is good, because the reality is it's neither. It just is, yes, right. So having a car, it's not good nor bad. Not having a car, it's not good nor bad. It just is a circumstance that exists and if you make it a judgment, I have this, they don't. I don't like that. I like what I have right. You're creating separation.
Speaker 1:Yeah that's a love loss. That is a love loss because that separation that exists is what divides everything, that's what keeps everything going further and further apart, whereas if you could not have a car and see somebody with a car in black man, that's cool. They got that. I'm glad they do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good for them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, instead of saying they're ruining my, my roads, they're ruining my sidewalks and stuff like that. Because the reality is, I think, all things exist, all things can exist and they can exist simultaneously with one another.
Speaker 2:But the thing peacefully is what you're saying things go away when they aren't needed though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so if cars are less needed because people are more communal, that's just that's what happens. But if you're judging the cars being there, the cars will increase the car, there will be more cars, there will be more Expansion, there will be more separation because of the judgment of it existing. And so all of these people talking about being green and this, that another, yeah, but also the earth has always been in a change, and to blame one thing or another is a judgment. The reality is we do have an effect how much of an effect, and all this, I'm not gonna get into that. But the judgment of it existing, meaning that somebody else is causing this problem, but not me.
Speaker 1:Yeah it's like the Pharisee praying to God and the Publican praying to God, the Pharisees praying the self-righteous prayer, saying thank God, I'm not like the publican this is in Luke, luke 8, but thank God, I'm not like the publican. But then the publicans like God, I'm sinful, I have made mistakes. I'm please have mercy on me. Where's the? The Pharisee, which is the righteousness of God, doing everything right, following the law of God, if you will, thinks that they are better, and that's what people, with and without that's the judgment is thinking. That it's self-righteousness and, yeah, judgment of it.
Speaker 2:So yeah that judging others is obviously you know. None of us live. And what is it glad we all live in glass houses and throw stones right.
Speaker 1:Throw stones because I'm a good rock thrower, though, right.
Speaker 2:Probably the best. That actually reminds me of a story in sixth grade. I was walking on the On the track in high school right, but I was in sixth grade business. Sixth grade center was right next to the high school business. Sixth grade center Was the old high school right, and so then they just simply changed it instead. All six graders of Cedar Hill High School.
Speaker 1:Are gonna say you definitely went to school in Texas, didn't you? Yeah, that's exactly what Texas does, yeah and a lot of people moved in, so we built another school. You can have the old one.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, that's exactly it. And the the high school parking lot was, you know, a stone's throw literally From this track and field, and so we're all doing our laps like we're supposed to do. But of course we're kids and we want to create havoc and in the world, and so people are like, oh, but you guys can't throw a rock and get it over that fence, and I was just like I could do it.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 2:I'm that kid, yeah, and so I did it. And of course I hit a car and the car had an alarm and it just started going off. And then of course you see 20 kids simultaneously just start running. Guilty as hell, not us, not us. So we get about 200 meters on the back half and you know, pe coach is just just waiting.
Speaker 2:Okay, just staring at us and you know, just be like okay, who's gonna run out who? Because I'm about to grill every single one of y'all. And so it's like they all kind of stopped walking and Kind of like moved away from me and kind of pointing their fingers and just I was like yeah, okay, it was me.
Speaker 1:That's why turning of snitches get stitches. Uh-huh all of you, guys, you got it coming.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't even know what happened to me. Maybe a Saturday detention. I think nothing was broken. Maybe you have to ask my mom.
Speaker 1:The reality is oh man, I spent so much time in detention that I was best friends with the detention teacher. Yeah, and you know they. They changed them out because, like, where I went to school, that is like it's like every week they had a different person that volunteered for detention, or something like that. I don't remember the specifics like I Also get my memories confused with others now. That I shared so many like stories and things like that with people that I'm like that's another wild thing.
Speaker 2:That makes me think how many of our memories we just Actually yours, we adopted somebody else's memory and every time you recall, you're not recalling that, you're recalling the memory of it that's a great Something to add because you know, I show my daughters, my daughters to my two oldest daughters live in New York with their mother, so they only come down to Texas three times a year, right, and I do as much as I possibly can because to me I'm doing quality over quantity.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to put in core memories in their brain to make sure that they know that I in Texas and their family in Texas love them, want to be with them and, just like, are there to support them and as they get older we want them to come and visit us. That's the whole idea. So we have all of these pictures and you know, when they come in we show them. Hey, this is what we did, you know, two, two years ago, that Christmas, that spring break, that summer when we were in Missouri, or you know, whatever we do, all these things they don't remember. They don't remember. But they will now have a picture, a concrete picture, for that memory, and Even it's wedged in there. And now I have added a layer upon that memory that they say they don't remember, but once they see the picture, they do remember.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, oh yeah, but now they get this concrete image to put into it. And now, by by how I talk about it, by what I remember, I am adding to that essential memory. And so, yes, that memory that my daughter will now have in the future and how she will remember it, is Partly my memory that I gave her, absolutely you know.
Speaker 1:This reminds me I had James on a couple episodes ago and he actually said something when he went to Montana. He goes, I took a picture. I feel like I stole something. Hmm, it's like I took something from there and it's like that resonated with me deeply, because Think about when cameras didn't exist and I had to actually Experience it as opposed to snap a picture and then I'll look at it later.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying that that's what you're doing, because I don't want to make an accusation there, but I'm just saying that like how many times you're fine, how many times do we go for the?
Speaker 1:we take the picture, but maybe we're taking something of the essence of what's actually there to be seen Away from it as opposed to. And then we get to develop this idea and this is something like me going back to my trauma, my past. I Get to redefine what that means for me. So if I look at that picture, maybe I have a negative memory of that Maybe I have this negative like oh man, that was where I got my ass beat at right.
Speaker 1:It's like or that's where I got into a fight, or that's where I got left Right those things like Joe dirt right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah you know, and so then it becomes this thing about okay, well, where's the power in that right? Where is the but? You can define it because all of the things that we go through Shape us. So you taking your girls and having those experiences, even if they can't recall it, mm-hmm, they're being shaped by it, which is, I think, our objective is, fathers, to be able to shape our children in a way that they get to then experience life in a meaningful way, and if we are trying to Make them see it a certain way, yeah, that's.
Speaker 2:That's never positive or good, I think, in the day you always want your kids to be them mm-hmm themselves. I just feel like I'm a mentor, a guide, someone that is here to help them understand how to Create whatever life they want to create. I don't want them. I don't want to live vicariously through them. I don't want them to depend on me in such a way that they can't stand on their own, but I want them to know that I'll always be there for you want them to trust you in that relationship built, and so I heard this this real the other day.
Speaker 1:That was it said. Your parents are like a coach. Coach can never play the game. They can only give you a plan, tell you how they think you should do it, but you're the one that actually has to do your parents. Just a coach they will never step on the field, and every time that you try to live vicariously through your kids Step on the field, so to speak, or to guide them in a very specific way. Yeah, I do think you're minimizing what is possible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you just. It created a crazy image in my mind. I have see baseball and I see like little t-ball kids and then the dad just picks up the kid and runs the bases. And how does that look for everybody? How, what is that memory for the dad? And what about the kid just being dragged by the dad saying I, under your own weight and power, it doesn't matter how fast or so you were, I'm gonna do this for you. And I think that just takes it away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, it's man, that's a, and so that image right there, let's build on that image so like let's say that that kid grows up and is upset at his dad. Now we're not doing that Whenever something's hard in life, dad, I need you to pick me up and tote me around the bases right, because if you set that precedent, mm-hmm, it's up to you to fulfill it. Otherwise, your love is conditional because now you've chosen not to do it Right, and so that that's. I'm not saying that that was how the father felt. I'm just saying that the child's mind, that is exactly how that child will feel.
Speaker 2:And if if any parent in Any situation is going to go to some extreme measure, measure like that example, they're not.
Speaker 1:They're gonna do it again and of course some other aspect of life and that is going to become normalized and a habit and Look, I'm guilty that I coached my kids through baseball and we actually have given up all sports, not because I have a problem with it, but because it's like I was too invested in being the coach and coaching the kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah as opposed to allowing the kids to have an experience. So I had to reel back because I had other things in life that I thought served better and so I, some of my kids, want to get back in the sports. We probably will. But what just kind of took a breath back, kind of took a step back because Of the things that you're talking about, seeing those things, and I was judging parents for how they were doing it. But the reality is, let them do that. That's their kid, their problem. They're gonna go through that and all this stuff. But the hardest part is coaching another parents, kids, while they're sitting there.
Speaker 1:Wanting to correct you don't talk to him that way, don't do that blah, blah, blah like that stuff's hard man.
Speaker 2:It is. It is being a teacher myself and a soccer coach. You do have parents come up to you. Hey, I'm so, and so, hey, this is my kid. Hey, you know, he likes this position. Hey, he does this, hey, you know, and it's like, yeah, I'll take care of it. Wherever I think he is best, I will take care of it. I appreciate that but I'll see through his own work ethic during practice in the games what he can do for me.
Speaker 1:You don't have to come up and tell me that and give me, like the 411, before you know he's ever put on the it's like also like they're trying to create this image of their kids, so you favor them or you put them in the position that they want them in that also. That made me think of another thing about like I just lost it Whenever you're, whenever you're a coach, like think about Friday night lights, if you ever watch that movie or whatever you have the parents and stands oh, you need put so and so in.
Speaker 1:Blah, blah, blah, take him out. All these things. Right, yeah, see people watching football, doing stuff. It's like Let the coach be the evaluator for the objective there. All right, but also there's really bad coaches.
Speaker 1:There's really bad coaches, yeah, but also there's another. This is I remember it now. So I saw this post that said it was a coach making a post and it said my job is Is to what was it? What was it specifically? My job is to Find the right person to do it. It's your job to make sure you are that person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now there's a little hint of truth to that, but I think that the way that I see it is like, as a coach, it's my job to see where you're falling short and how to help you help the team Right. So if I got a slugger, let's talk about baseball. If I got a slug, a kid that can bat really well but he sucks at running bases, not everything's gonna be a homer, bro, you can hit it out to center field and still a single. So I'm gonna help him learn how to run bases right. So it's like, as a coach, you have to think about those things. And then you got a lineup. Oh, you got to put a lineup up. You got this kid that can crank it. Well, you definitely want some kid with some wheels on in front of them because you want to get a score on us on a slow kid single, if you can. So like there's a lot of like understand what's the objective here.
Speaker 2:What are?
Speaker 1:you trying to do and that's the coach's job. And the parents, the people that are telling they don't understand what the coach's view and objective is of the team most of those parents are simply Only caring about their kid.
Speaker 2:They're not caring about the team aspect, and the coach, specifically, should not be playing favorites. Therefore, he's looking at the entire team and how each individual will contribute to the entire team, while the parent is only looking at little Johnny or Jimmy or whoever they have.
Speaker 1:I mean they're personally invested in them.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly Nothing wrong with that and I completely understand if they believe, oh, my kid should have this or that or whatever. That's great, that's your belief. That doesn't mean that the coach is going to Interact or, sorry, create that, that exact game plan that that specific parent wants. You're just gonna have to Take it.
Speaker 2:You're just gonna have to simply take it. Not everything happens the way we want it to happen, and that's what shapes us. Sometimes you want to be really great at baseball and a coach does not believe in you, no matter how good you are or what you show. And you have to decide.
Speaker 2:Am I going to stay in this relationship With this coach who does not see me, believe in me, know that what I can do, or am I gonna go to another baseball team and show them my skills there and not be taken for granted?
Speaker 1:I think both lessons are valuable though. Yeah, but they do shape you going forward. Mm-hmm, right, because, like, if you stay in that that relationship with that coach, to where the coach is undervaluing you, there's something to be said about. If you really want to be valued, how do you out, work, the circumstances that is possible. Yeah, I'm telling you, that's a hard road, it's a really hard road that you may never get seen. But then maybe you take the other routes where this other coach is like oh, you can be the superstar of the team. No, maybe you're not superstar material, you're just the best player, but you don't have the leadership qualities. You don't have the things that the other coach saw, that you didn't have. This coach could break you. Yeah, I'd see you like that's. That's how complex all of these things are, so it doesn't actually matter what you choose.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it doesn't. Either way, it's gonna be a lesson, because even that other coach, that second coach, maybe he turns you into a star and now you're battling with ego. Utism yeah right, this idea that I'm too hot for myself and everybody else. And then let's say you do, move on to the next stage and you find out you're a big fish in a little pond right and so again, everything is simply just that lesson and what it.
Speaker 2:There is no good or bad. It's just you coming to grips with who you truly are, because there will always be someone better than you and there will always be someone worse than you always look for category.
Speaker 1:I used to look for people that were worse. I felt good about myself.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna be right.
Speaker 1:I didn't know that that was my pattern of behavior.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but.
Speaker 1:I definitely would look for people that I thought were Less than me yeah, number one, so that I I wanted to be With all of my friends. What it ended up being is I was always the moral, the conscious one, the morally Astute one that would be like this is where we draw the line. But when there was other people around that would have that line drawing ability, I'm crossing it and I'm going well beyond it. So I would choose to be around people to where I could be the one that says, hey, this is too far. But if I was around other people that would say, hey, this is too far, I'm like you don't tell me what to do. Yeah, and see, it's like I had a habit of like really closing myself off because, again, there's value in doing that, but there's also value in overstepping the, the line drawing and see, it isn't good or bad, it just is. So the experience that we choose, it's all. It's like an interactive book or an interactive game.
Speaker 1:Yeah it's like it doesn't really matter what experience we choose. We all eventually, in my view, get to the same place. I believe in karma to some degree. Like the car make cycle of like. If you don't get the lesson in this lifetime, in this physical body, I'm pretty sure you get another one. And I'm not saying it's good or bad, I'm not. I'm just saying that, like, I'm pretty sure that if you don't get to what Christians would call heaven, you cycle through again until you get there.
Speaker 2:Well, see one, that's where me and you differ. I do believe in a concept of heaven, but I do not think it is that place where you go after death.
Speaker 1:I don't think heaven's an actual physical spot because it's eternal.
Speaker 2:There's no physicality to something eternal so then, I would say for me, the best death definition of heaven is Closeness to God, and therefore hell would be the absence of God, and so you can be In your so-called heaven right now, at this time, by simply listening to yourself, going within and following that heart which is God, because God is love.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so that's brings me to this. Suffering is a choice. Yeah, right, so, and expectations is uh-huh so think, think about Jesus on the cross, right to make it. Make it about Jesus Christ right. Jesus on the cross Suffering. That would be suffering to people physical suffering. But even on the cross. The mind of the story, with the mind of Jesus, is to Still offer forgiveness and to essentially Forgive them, father, for they know not what they do, because hurt people hurt people. Row, yeah, hurt people, hurt people even forgave One of the criminals that was being crucified is next to him.
Speaker 2:And so, again, instead of focusing on himself, focusing on what he was about to endure, he was still offering mercy and love and compassion to other people in the same plight that he was. So, again, it's like that person didn't do anything for him, right? And he didn't have to see him, he didn't have to Acknowledge him, yeah, by all means. And yet he, he did that anyways, and I think that's what's so beautiful. You truly know a person's character by how they interact with people that Cannot do anything for them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's wild. So like and see things like that actually give me peace, because I'm like okay, now I may not be Jesus, right, but there's at least an example of I don't have to suffer. I can still, in my pain and all of the things that I'm enduring, still find peace, still be able to offer Mercy and kindness to other people. I don't have to perceive these things as attacks and see. This is something that I've learned recently too, probably within the last year. If I perceive something as an attack, it's just a perception. It doesn't matter what they're actually doing. Even if somebody came up with a gun and shot me with it, that is not an attack. It is perceived as an attack when, in all reality, they're just dealing with their circumstances in the best way. They know how. I just happen to be the one in front of them. See, their projection crosses my projection.
Speaker 1:Yes and the definitions that I give these things is how I perceive it. Mm-hmm and so if I perceive and I'm not saying that like somebody's shooting me would be a good thing, I'm just saying that like if I perceive it as an attack, I will condemn them Right, I will, I will judge them, I will say damn them for doing that. Blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:Listen that most of those attacks it's not personal and so we don't have to take it as personal. Obviously something is deranged in that person and they have so hurt that they want to hurt other people hurt you right exactly, and you just happen to be in the spot where this hurt person is going to decide to make it that's less deadly people cutting you off in traffic. It ain't got nothing to do with you. No, it doesn't. Why you getting mad about yeah why people getting mad about?
Speaker 1:yeah, there's no reason to get mad. I mean.
Speaker 2:I get mad at people going so damn slow, and again it has nothing to do with me. I'm just like, ah, then it's all about patience, right? So I get it and I agree with you. And yet we Constantly love to have irk at other people, we love to say they're the reason I am feeling this way. But I think and I think the bigger thing is, as we don't know how to not be our emotions- that is a hard lesson and there's.
Speaker 1:Look, I Talked into a lot of people and so, like I'll talk to someone on the phone, they'll be in the car and I've been driving.
Speaker 2:They're driving, so slow.
Speaker 1:They're driving so slow. It's like why have so many emotions about that? Like it's like, even if it is personal, even if somebody does cut you off because it's you know, I ain't got nothing to do with you, because they're making their choices and if you perceive it as an attack, you will address it as an attack.
Speaker 2:Well, because it what it does is it creates a certain emotion within you and you latch on to that emotion and that emotion could be anger or fright, or a fast heart race or whatever, and then you have as an Association to that feeling, and now that association is a personal attack, but it could be, you know, a multitude of things. You know there's a multitude of feelings in road rage and and traffic in general, and, and to me I completely agree with you.
Speaker 2:I simply try, because you know you'll get these feelings blowing up within you and I Care more about my feelings when it has to do with my significant other, about relationships, I mean, I melt and I it's almost like I cannot live in the world when I am having issues with my partner, when I have a partner man, I, I resonate with that.
Speaker 1:It makes it really hard. Yes, I we, I bear them. Yes, I bear them and I'm just like oh man, it's like that's probably like some childhood Probably probably is, but it's like it's like Metallica song, nothing else matters like I don't care about my job.
Speaker 2:I don't even care about my kids at that time and that's so horrible to say because it's like, well, and I look at it at the time when, when this happened this was years ago I'm recalling a memory I, I was like I didn't have kids without the relationship. So to me, the relationship created the kids and so when the relationship was was being ruined or Was not the way I had perceived it in my mind or wanted or hoped or whatever, everything else simply went to a standstill. Because if I didn't have that relationship aka If you haven't noticed, I was codependent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, toxic.
Speaker 2:It just. It took me out of my element and I was a person that thought I was able to control myself and and control my thoughts and feelings and emotions. And then here it is my biggest weakness I felt like I was nothing, without Someone loving me and being like you're a good person and I value you and I want to spend time with me.
Speaker 1:I mean that stuff feels good. It does feel good, but the thing is, when we need that we're not. We're not fulfilling it for ourselves, right? And so like where me it was a little bit different. Similar, but a little bit different to me. The kid stuff, that's cool. I'm very confident and comfortable with that. It's like I'm not. I don't need this person for me to be that person. Yeah but this right here, this right here is my attention. This because that's cool. I got that with the kids.
Speaker 2:That's cool, like I trust that, See, I can do it right. I just I didn't have the heart and it Well, see I.
Speaker 1:I would be able to like, okay, that's separate than this. Yeah, and maybe that's maybe not with my ex-wife, with me and my wife that recently split. It's like when I'm focused in on that, yeah, her, in that situation I will stop that to go do the kid thing, but then, as soon as that's to a stop people, I'm right back at it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm just like, okay, let me, let me, let me fix this, let me deal with this, let me, let me try to do better, let me let me help, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me. But the reality is is like, bro, chill, yeah, just chill, because I needed. I needed that reassurance. I needed that like, oh, I'm, I'm not going to do. I needed that. I wasn't confident enough in myself and in that situation that I needed them to fulfill that for me, whereas if I'd have shown up feeling that way, the circumstances probably would have been different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you, you, you also brought up a good point that I would like to Like dive in on. It was this idea that when you changed your activity, you changed your emotions.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:And that is for people who do not know how to get out of their emotions. That's why it's so important to just simply change the activity you are doing. I mean because then your emotions do change and then it does be able become easier for you to then live your life Without being over overcome by those crazy emotions, in whatever Area of your life has been blown up, I guess you would say is Change your activity.
Speaker 1:Um that brings me to the point of like kids. That's whenever my kids are getting super worked up in their emotions. I just try to get them out of what they're thinking about. Let me do something that's going to oh, like, oh, let me look at that. Or, or how was your day? How is it? Let me read this book to you, like I'm trying to find things that will change what they're thinking about, and then come back to it.
Speaker 2:So then that goes to distractions, because we are trying to distract them from their own feelings. And now it's all back to this idea of having healthy distractions and not picking up drugs. Not picking up you know something that is such a distraction that it sucks you in and creates Naked not. Yeah, it would be negative consequences over a period of time in your life if it became a favorable. Yeah, well, you know the idea of like Eating your Eating your feelings and then becoming a diabetic Right. That obviously would not be positive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, absolutely not. It's like, unless being a diabetic makes you change the way that you're being an.
Speaker 2:Become an artist, and then you use your pain to yeah. So knowledge to everybody, Well.
Speaker 1:I think the second piece, though, is when you distract your child, or when you distract yourself, you have to do it knowing I have to come back to this. I have to come back to this. Well, yeah, you can't run from your problems, can you? Oh, I tried, everybody does. I've tried for 30, some odd years.
Speaker 1:You know, I really tried to run from my problems because I thought me moving away from it Was solving it. It's, oh man, that brings me to this idea. I see all these videos about like narcissism and all of this stuff like that.
Speaker 2:I'm like it's everywhere. I'm like, oh my god, Everyone's a narcissist now.
Speaker 1:Well, here's the thing we all have narcissistic tendencies because we do it to protect ourselves at survival, Absolutely so we're calling you have to use your ego to survive.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh and then you just have to recognize that you're not over using, overcompensating your ego and learning to work within a community friends, family, society, collaboration, whatever right and so you have to know, just like like when to work and play, you have to know when to use your ego and when to focus on community and focus on others.
Speaker 1:Well yeah, I mean, look, I think that this is how I see it. My view is like. You know how people say God and the devil? Right, uh-huh, that internal battle. The ego is the devil. Yes, the ego is the one sitting on the shoulder saying I do this because the ego will do Everything it can to keep itself alive and in power. The ego will even kill you, to the point of keeping itself in power.
Speaker 2:But the craziest of all of that is we're talking about duality. And then it goes into these are two sides of the same coin. Because the god, the brand new album, that's the artist, god and the god and devil are raging inside of me. Great album, go listen to it. But that word, the god and devil raging inside of me, that's our duality Of everything that we're simply experiencing and that leads to christ's consciousness, where we recognize that we all come from the same cloth, we all bleed the same blood, and when we recognize that everybody is Living in duality and then, if you can, come to a singular understanding.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're articulating this so well because the the dual mind, right, living with a dual mind leaves you confused, yes and right. And so, as you are confused in life, as you keep the oh, I feel bad, let me go do this. Oh, I got fat, though, right, oh, let me go do this. Oh man, I ended up in jail because I got drunk on a park bench you know what I?
Speaker 1:mean. And so it's like the satisfaction, like the things that the ego does does not serve you long term. The things that the ego does serves the ego. Yes, it serves that immediate moment, what the ego does.
Speaker 2:And then here's the idea of escaping from the actual work, the feeling, and that is surrendering here is.
Speaker 1:The problem with doing that with ego, though, is that's a wagon that's loaded with problems. The soul keeps counting. The soul keeps counting until you start dealing with it that the soul will hold it, and it's like so. If you think about disease, you think about issues. This is probably going to be weird to people, but, like even cancer and stuff like this, it is all rooted within. How can some people be predisposed to this stuff and then not get cancer? And others too? Like the beliefs in which you carry, the stresses that it's caused and the ways in which you deal with those things is what causes these diseases. I believe that wholeheartedly. I think that people that get cancer, the people that overcome cancer, is because they surrender. They surrender to the fact that this is what I got. Yeah, this is what I'm gonna do. The people that fight, fight, fight, fight. That usually kills them, and I'm not saying you shouldn't fight for your life. I think the moment of surrender and that's the duality thing is like once you stop living in the dual mind and you surrender.
Speaker 2:And you simply accept it.
Speaker 1:It just starts to. It just starts to disappear. And I'm not saying your disease. There are things that once it gets past a certain point you can't just reverse it. But if you're wanting to avoid those types of things, if you want to have the best chance at that, you got to do soul work, you got to do the internal work.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, you, you, you find out you have cancer already. That does not sound good and you have two choices, right? You fight it, you deny it, you try to get rid of it, right, that's one way and, like you said, that leads to more problems. That's, you know, just just so many Issues with it. And sure your chance, sure, maybe you get an extra few years of your life, right, but if you simply just accept it, when you accept it, you're accepting everything within your life.
Speaker 1:Everything, everything and when you do that.
Speaker 2:And now it doesn't matter if you got those two years, you don't. It doesn't matter if cancer goes away and you get an extra 20, it doesn't matter if you only give it six months. You're now actually alive for the first time in your life because you have finally accepted Everything that has been given to you and you're just like here I am. I can't believe I waited this long to simply let go and stop trying to control things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's wild, because I actually, you know, I met somebody one time that had beat cancer and then they were like I didn't want to live this long though. I there's like like they had accepted life but then, like life got hard again because that acceptance and they had beaten cancer and then they had Gotten on in life again.
Speaker 2:They're like I kind of wish I had cancer again.
Speaker 1:Like, but also think about how many people think themselves into having cancer or not. Let's say I'm not want to talk cancer too much because people have issues, but, like, think their self into sickness. Whenever I was dealing with a lot of stress I was having affairs, I had a stressful job I wasn't being showing up to my life the way that I needed to Screw anybody's judgments, I just wasn't showing up the way I needed to, being responsible for the things, and so my soul was keeping count of these things. Right, okay, I ended up getting my tonsils taken out because the doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong. Because I was sick, I was always running fever, I was always Missing work, I was always you know, it's all these problems, but the doctors just couldn't pinpoint it and they're like, oh, let's take the tonsils out. I took the tonsils out and it's like, oh, I'm still having the problems. Well, that clearly wasn't it, and it's like. I felt like I was on an episode of doctor house on house Like, oh, we can't, we can't solve these problems.
Speaker 1:But then all of those problems started to go away after I wanted to kill myself and I just decided that I was done. I'm done with this, this is just what it is. And then I ended up at the hospital and I had to start doing all this work. All of those issues have just slowly melted away. All of these things that the doctors couldn't find, the doctors couldn't solve, all of my joint issues, all of these things just slowly started to subside to where I feel healthier now, at 35.
Speaker 1:Then I did 20, and it's simply because I'm not under the stress of my own judgment or the judgment of others or what I think I should do, because I've accepted that I am those things. I did those things, whereas I was hiding from those things. Right, I would wake up feeling terrible. I wouldn't sleep. I'd sleep. I had all these problems. Man, all of these problems None of them. I have none of them anymore. None of them, and I attribute that to acceptance. I attribute that to I'm really open and honest with people about my screw-ups, like I tell people I did drugs, I tell people I had affairs, because I don't care if they judge me because I've already been judged for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's already affected my life. Yeah, I'm judging me.
Speaker 1:He's not gonna change anything and and, and so I I see a lot of people that I try to help are dealing with the same thing, but me talking like that, like, oh, like, if you want to feel better, stop judging yourself, it's like Forgive yourself for those past mistakes as well, yeah right Like we want.
Speaker 2:We want to be seen as a good person, but through life we do all these wrong things and then we end up saying we're a bad person and it's like, well, you're only saying you're a bad person now. Sure, maybe you did some of those things on purpose and they maybe even premeditated.
Speaker 2:But most of those things you did out of ignorance, most of those things you did because they're habitual and only when you started to self reflect and actually see your own bullshit were you able to stop it, and that is why you forgive yourself, because if you would have saw it sooner, you would have stopped it sooner, but you didn't see it until you did, you didn't have the awareness until you were aware of it.
Speaker 1:Like exactly how can you be aware of something until you become aware of it?
Speaker 2:Like if.
Speaker 1:I hadn't. I'm gonna tell you this something I talk about too. I used to judge people so harshly for having affairs. I used to be so mean and rude to somebody how could somebody do that? But then I'd found my spot in a life, in my life, to where I just felt unloved, I felt unliked, I felt nobody wanted to be around me. And then I got attention from somebody. I'm just like oh, this is nice, and I got a little more attention and a little more attention, and I was a weak individual and I fell into the trap, so to speak. Not that that person was trapping me, but I fell into the trap of that like that oh, this is nice, it's nice.
Speaker 2:Let me get more of that. Yeah, the carrot in front of this, the carrot in front of the donkey, whatever.
Speaker 1:And then I didn't feel guilty until I Crossed a line that I couldn't come back from. Yeah, the thing is, the moment that I started considering that was a line that I couldn't come back from Because I didn't have the, the self control, the discipline and all of that stuff to say this isn't going to serve me, but I would not be here today to be able to say that had I not done it. So me judging other people Put me in a spot to do that, and so then me doing that. There's two things that have to happen at that point I either got to soften on other people or I got to be hard on myself. I tried the hard on myself. It didn't work very good.
Speaker 1:And so if I'm judging myself, saying, oh, you're just a cheater, you're this, you're that, I'm gonna do that to everybody else too, it's like. But if I just look at myself as someone's like man I was, I was in a deep spot, I was in a dark spot and I did the best that I could and I made that decision. I made that decision. It affected people. I'm sorry that I hurt people.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry that I interacted you own it, but I did it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I can't hide from that and I don't want to walk around and then have somebody find out about it and then me lose my footing with where I'm at. So I'm just completely open and honest. If I get into another relationship or something like that, it's all over the internet.
Speaker 2:I've had affairs.
Speaker 1:Yeah right, yeah, all over the internet, yeah, but me doing that as a show of honesty, I'm not hiding from anything anymore and it's been a slow progression of like I'm not hiding from it and I'll allow people now, even allow my kids, to say Dad, I don't want you. I don't, you shouldn't, I don't think you should be doing that, dad.
Speaker 1:I allowed him to tell me because my dad would never, I didn't have the authority to tell my dad what he should. I'm a kid, he's an adult, yeah, but the thing is people around to see things that we can't see. Yeah, that's true because we're stuck in our own purview, we're looking directly at what we're looking at, with no peripherals, and then the people that we trust around us saying, hey, maybe you shouldn't take that drink man, because you drank three nights in a row and you've gotten in a slobber and stupor and Look at yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but if you don't have people around you, that will do that?
Speaker 2:enough to tell you.
Speaker 1:Well, the thing is, I pushed all those people away because I didn't need to hear their nonsense. I wanted to do my deviant behaviors. I wanted to do those things in private and let nobody know about it.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, yeah, because you felt guilty. You knew you were doing something that was not good for you and I kept doing it because you didn't yet, at the time, want to put in the work, because it was actually harder, it was actually easier to Drink or smoke or to have the affair then to actually sit down and do the work, is it? You know? Yeah, it's easier to dig a hole down than it is to climb up that hole that brings me to another idea of Everybody's worst is the same feeling.
Speaker 1:So the worst thing that you've ever experienced is the same feeling that somebody that's experienced. They're worst Can't compare them though, yeah, but the feeling is still the same, yeah everybody's bottom is their bottom.
Speaker 1:Yeah, everybody's bottom is their bottom, and so this is something too kind of a thing. That I've been saying is I've not felt the worst thing that I'm ever going to feel and I've not felt the happiest I'll ever feel. I know that that's sitting right here right now. There will be things that I will experience that are new, that I've never experienced. It will put me in a bottom that will put me down. That'll bring me up. I know that because it's constant. Through my whole life I never thought I would have an affair, had an affair and put me in a bottom. It put me in such a deep bottom, but then I also thought that I would never be an alcoholic. That was another bottom.
Speaker 2:But now you know, now you have all of this experience and you are taking accountability for your actions, and so I think maybe you don't give yourself enough credit, because I don't think you will hit a bottom as bottom as you did before, because I don't think you'll ever put yourself into those positions.
Speaker 1:But there's also yes, you'll, you'll go down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course you'll go down, but I don't think you'll ever go that far down again, because you won't do those things again and I'm saying even Things that are similar to it. You now know better.
Speaker 1:I guess the assumption that I'm making is that something unforeseen that I've never considered. Yeah and so that would be the only and I'm not saying that, oh, I'm expecting it to happen, but I just assume that that is the case, so that I know that also keeps me available to Just my pride. That's another thing pride. Yeah pride is a pride is a motherfucker man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is. I mean, and oh my god, like anyway. So if I allow myself to know that, like yeah, I'm gonna have some bottoms right and I might experience something worse, because how many times in my life this is the worst thing I've ever?
Speaker 2:experienced.
Speaker 1:This is so terrible. I feel some blah, blah blah and this and that, but Then I experienced something worse and I'm just like mmm, maybe I should quit saying that, maybe I should stop. You know that hole it rains at pours, maybe. I stop saying that this is the worst thing that could ever happen to me. And then, and then the universe is like you sure?
Speaker 2:Yeah, see it like I always Nowadays, any time something negative comes to me, I tried to. I try to find the silver lining. Like I just got a bill and it was nine hundred and ninety six dollars for your taxes from last year that I didn't pay thing is, as I did pay, I said certified mail, the check paid them the money that I supposedly owed. Well, apparently that check never got there. I, since I was like I was going through so many things I had just broken up with Tony or she had broken up with me like I didn't have checks, I had to go get just like three checks from Wells Fargo I don't keep you know Information or anything like that. So my mom, all she had was a picture of the certified mail, but they didn't tell me that they received it. So here's the bill, so I just paid it.
Speaker 2:I talked to my CPA and she just says pay it, just pay it. Okay, I'll just pay it. Then I get another bill from my court case with Tony. That was two years ago. It just finally comes in. So out of nowhere I have a twelve hundred dollar.
Speaker 2:You know, downfall but, then just Christmas I got a twenty five hundred dollar bonus. Like what do you do? It's just life. Yeah, you know, shit happens and and I don't like it, I don't want it. But you know I started telling myself I'm abundant once. I like I have never hit so far rock bottom on money, that I am homeless. Now I know other people can't say that I feel very fortunate that I have.
Speaker 2:Parents that will help me in dire needs, and I have used that resource before, of course, so I do have something that makes me know that I do have a safety net. Not everybody has that, and I wish our, our society would provide more of a safety net, because if if we didn't, then I would think that we want to have what we have?
Speaker 1:Well, maybe, and so think about it this way, though think about even if you didn't have your parents, you still may not have ended up homeless like this. So, like me, like I, I did I've never had that safety net. I've never had something to fall back on, to that capacity. I've never been homeless, though.
Speaker 1:Yeah the thing is is like I think we allow ourselves to be until we know we got it, we got it, we got to get it right, it's like, and so if we know that that safety net is there, it gives us a little bit more room wiggle room right, but it doesn't mean that because, look, they're gonna get tired of supporting it too. Yeah, especially if you keep ending up there and it's like our dude like come on.
Speaker 2:Why did debt consolidation? Two years ago, I wasn't working for nine months and it was. This was like right after COVID during COVID. And I tried to do my lost connection tarot thing and I mean I still haven't gotten rid of it, I just don't do it anymore. I still love the idea. I still love doing tarot, yeah, but you know I was trying to. You know I wasn't teaching at the time. I was trying to do tarot but I wasn't actively pursuing it.
Speaker 2:I was just like the universe will provide and yeah, I wasn't providing for myself and eventually we got so far in debt. I was just like I got to pull the plug on this. This so-called dream of just hoping the universe is gonna feed me Put it in my mouth literally in the middle of that right now.
Speaker 1:I was just thinking like, oh, I'm gonna will myself into this situation and the universe will provide to me. But here's the thing the universe might provide to me. The thing is, what am I willing to put into it? Yeah what am I willing to do to have that the universe?
Speaker 2:will meet you halfway, but you one, you have to be like, you have to be so sure like this is where I want to go. If you're hesitant, if you're unsure, it's not going to provide for you. It's not gonna meet you halfway because you yourself are unsure. So you're reflecting that to the universe and the universe is like I'm not unsure. It's like are you look?
Speaker 1:if I give you this, what are you gonna do with you? You're just gonna stop like if. I provide the universe resources to you to be there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you act like you care, but do you?
Speaker 1:you're like what's in your heart and see that's the thing that I've had to figure out, like with this. The other thing is to when I start trying to make money with something, it taints it and I don't want to do it anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I said that's a battle that I've got to think of we?
Speaker 2:we have this horrible idea of money. Like I just, I lambasted capitalism earlier, but money is simply energy, and energy is infinite and energy cannot be created nor destroyed.
Speaker 2:It can only be transferred or altered or changed, right? So therefore, money is infinite. We just don't have that relationship with money. But we can create that relationship with money. But we have to change our idea of that. I just watched a dude on instagram.
Speaker 2:You get, you know, so you win the lottery right, you win the lottery and you got 10 million dollars. And so you, they give you 10 million dollars. So you go and you put it in the bank right, 10 million dollars. And the bank says it's going to take us two weeks to process this, right. And so for two weeks you don't have 10 million dollars, but you sure as hell believe you have 10 million dollars.
Speaker 2:So you're going around as abundant as fuck, being like I can take this risk, I can do that thing, don't worry about those debts, I got you boo over there, you know, drinks on me, whatever. And then you start saying yes to thing, you start seeing possibilities, you start manifesting even more because you are in that abundant mindset, but you don't actually have the money. You just believe you do. And that is what manifestation is when you have to have that belief that it's there and if you hold on to that belief long enough, then you will start creating that abundance. So you got to fake it till you make it there's a counter to that though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's hear it. Okay. So if you are doing it to satisfy something, that's just your ego, right. But here's the thing, that abundance disappears, right? So if, if you Believe that you have this, like I'm so like my last job that I got, I didn't go looking for it. It found me, that was the universe and it was a job that I wanted. So bad, not that place that, but it was an idea that I'd carry. It's like, yeah, I'd be really great at that kind of job.
Speaker 1:And then a friend of mine got a job at a company's like hey, bro, you'd be perfect here when he ain't got the interview killed, it got the job, got paid more than what I was going to ask for yeah, perfect. And then go through this whole thing and then Having that income now I became careless.
Speaker 1:Right, I became like, but again, because now I'm stressed at work, so I'm satisfying the stress at work instead of dealing with what it is it's causing the stress, or at home or whatever, and so I'm spending the money right. So now I'm losing the abundance.
Speaker 2:So when I was free thinking.
Speaker 1:It came to me, but the moment that I put pressure on it, the moment that it became something to solve something else, it was no longer abundance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I would go ahead. No, I was gonna say maybe after a period of time Did you feel trapped within that job, like it was creating your sustenance instead of you were creating your sustenance yeah absolutely, absolutely, did feel that way, and so then I decided that, oh, once this job, I knew the job was ending.
Speaker 1:We'd made an agreement. They were, you know, dealing with bankruptcy and all that stuff, and I'm like they couldn't afford to keep me on Because they weren't getting the jobs that they were and whatever. And so I decided that, okay, I had like two months left. I was like I'm gonna do this coaching thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah and then I started paying for coaching so that I could launch my business. But I ran out of the job, ran out of the wife, ran out of the money. I I believe that I tried to force something, thinking that this was going to solve my problems, and the universe was like oh no bro.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hold on.
Speaker 1:Do you want to help people or do you want to make money? Because you can't choose to do both. Now they can serve each other. Yeah, if you want to make money, you have to focus on making the money Then. Then I have the moral conflict of idolatry. It's like if I value the money more than the relationships, then morally I will feel terrible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I've met way too many people that value money over their relationships and they're all miserable. Every single one of them are miserable. That's why I want to coach. So why would I value the money over the relationship? Why would I value how much I'm charging somebody over that whenever I really just want to help people? So that's the conundrum that I face. That's the dual mind.
Speaker 2:All right, I, I run through that all the time. Like you know, I like teaching. I've been doing it for a long time and I've contemplated going back and getting my teaching certification. Because I had it right, I, I, I got my certification, I went through the courses right and I passed the test and Then I was supposed to go get my student teaching and my house burned down before I went and got a student teaching job. So I went, I traveled and I went abroad and I lived and I taught abroad, but I did it as esl.
Speaker 2:I come back with seven years of teaching Experience, right, and I go and I get jobs, but I still don't have that teaching certification, and so I can only get limited jobs and not all the jobs. Thing is is, I got 14 years of teaching, I have already gone through the curriculum, the pedagogy I've, I've, I've taken the courses, I've passed the test. I simply don't have the certificate.
Speaker 1:That's how I feel like my life is.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't have the piece of paper that supports it, that opens the doors. I have the experience, I have the knowledge. I've gone because I'm a self teacher, like I get curious and things and I learn. I learn those things because I really I get obsessive let's be real honest and and maybe it's because I'm like autistic and stuff like that, whatever but I just get so honed in and focused on that's the only, like kids with dinosaurs, like that's all I care about yeah and so then, like for a long time it was sports, for a long time it was this or that or whatever, and then it became about this healing thing, and then, and that was like my focus, so I've read all the books so many books.
Speaker 1:I never even read before. Oh yeah, like I look, I From high school until probably three or four years ago I read maybe five books. Wow, I've read probably 30 books in the past three years, maybe more.
Speaker 1:Wow and I'm a really good reader now, whereas before I struggled to have dyslexia. That's a muscle like anything else, absolutely and so it's like I got so focused on something I didn't care what it was gonna, what I had to do to do it. I wanted to do it, and so then I gained all this experience, having these conversations and all these things. I'm like, oh, my goodness, I'm supposed to help people, right. So then I'm just like, oh, let me turn this into a business, when in all reality, I don't know that that's how the universe works. I think the universe works is like, okay, you want to help people? Help people, let these other things happen the way that they're supposed to. So like, maybe I'm supposed to go to school, maybe I'm supposed to whatever not supposed to. Maybe I could go to school to get a Degree to be a therapist or or whatever. Maybe I could get this certification that would give me this opportunity.
Speaker 1:But the reality is, I think I think that that actually takes away from the experience that I actually have and I'm not saying that it's negative to do that, but I'm not trying to do what they're doing. I'm not trying to do it the way that they're, and maybe that's me being foolish, but there's something different about what I'm doing than what I see others doing, and maybe that's a judgment as well, and I don't care about all that necessarily. But Every time I try to do those things it's so much harder Than what I'm willing to put in to get out of it because it doesn't serve me in a way that I want to. I only like the information so that I can use it. I don't want to spend four years getting a degree to have a job that I don't even know that I want. I just want to help people, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yep, I know that With that teaching certification you know I'm already Helping people. That certification literally just gives me the opportunity to teach at more schools. If I, let's say, I lose my current job and it gives me a little bit more money, and then it just simply gives me the, the Credit right, the, the validation that I am, this thing, but it I, you know it's more like, am I already satisfied? And if I'm already satisfied, if I'm already content, then I don't need that extra money. Like I'm not, I'm not starving, like I'm not needing Anything, what it? And plus what is 183 extra dollars a month going to do? I can't go upgrade my non-existent watch to a non-existent Rolex watch With an 183 extra a month. You know what I mean. Because, like, what you do is you buy things and then you Eventually, once you go up the payroll, you just buy the same shit, but now it's just more expensive.
Speaker 1:Right, I went through that the hard way. I went through that the hard way, getting promotions and stuff like that. Oh, you buy a couch Okay, you get a promotion. You get a nicer couch yeah, the damn thing still sits the same.
Speaker 2:Yes, it still sits the same and holds ass the same way. Yeah, you got a fancier microwave, you got fancier speakers and there's some value. Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 1:I'm not diminishing the quality. What I'm saying is like it's still the same thing, though. Yes, exactly, it's still the same thing. It's a couch holds ass. That's what a couch does.
Speaker 2:Okay, a car gets you from point a to point b. And so you can do it in style, or you can do it just, you know, casually, regularly, without Pop and circumstance.
Speaker 1:Oh, that makes me think. So I've intentionally started walking with anything less than two miles and so like I don't even drive to those things anymore. I'll take my hiking backpack and I'll walk to wherever I'm going. Because Do I need a car? Do I want a car? Do I need to drive? It's so like.
Speaker 2:Texas will say, yes, they want you to have a car, but I agree with you, it's not necessary. The thing is is you can always make do without as a teacher. I know that, you know I learned that with David.
Speaker 1:That was one of my favorite things about David. David showed me how to have less and be okay with that, because I was always just like, oh, I need this, I need that, I need this and that. David taught me how to just sleep on the floor with a wool blanket. Yeah, right, like just and I'm actually comfortable doing stuff like that now, whereas I thought that I needed all of these things to be comfortable.
Speaker 2:It's like no, I just need to learn to be still.
Speaker 1:I just need to learn to not need these things. Therefore, I'm not incessantly thinking that, oh, I need that, I need that, I need that be appreciative of what you do have.
Speaker 2:for example, I can't afford. I mean, I don't want to use the word afford, I can afford it. I don't have any room for new books, so I have no point to go out and buy new books. Do I want new books? Of course I want to read new books, but I still have books I have not read. It's probably got libraries, bro, I know exactly, exactly, but that's the thing. If I want new information, I could just go sit at Barnes and Nobles for two hours or I could go to the library and rent one out for free for free, for free, absolutely free.
Speaker 2:So there's always a way to do less and more, but now it's like a saddess symbol. You look at social media. People are going apeshit over these Stanley cups. I still Don't even.
Speaker 1:yeah, exactly, I don't even know I don't get it and see the thing is, is I used to be so like I would? Brand conscious Well not even so much brand constant. I was so anti brand conscious. Okay, so if somebody had a brand or something that they really liked, I, on merit, did not like it because so many people liked it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I've stopped doing that and I'm like it's like music. I used to hate pop music because, oh, everybody's listening to it, but now I just decide if I like the song.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you should. You shouldn't judge. Oh, I don't like this band because my girlfriend doesn't like this band. I don't like this band because my best friend doesn't like this band. Life is too short to care what other people think. If you like that band, who cares that your friends, your family, your boyfriend, girlfriend doesn't like it? Listen to it, sing it, enjoy it? Who cares?
Speaker 1:if you want to head bang at the stop light, head bang at the stop light.
Speaker 2:Who cares?
Speaker 1:if the lady next to you thinks that that's devil music the reality is you're vibing out with what you like.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I think that this is. We'll close out on this. I get closer. This is like the more that you discover the ways in which you've been told to think and feel and believe, the more that you discover that, the more that you can start deciding. Do I actually Do I actually believe that, do I want to believe that? Like if you believe that all republicans are racist, why do you believe that and do you want to believe that? Because if you do believe that, in my mind I think you want to believe that, you want that to be true, you want that to be the case. So therefore, you're justified. But if you ask yourself do I really want to judge somebody based upon something that I see? Not that I know.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, it's just an ideology. It's an idea and the thing is, is you weren't? You weren't republican democrat Green party independence.
Speaker 1:It didn't exist a thousand years ago. Oh yeah, even as kids.
Speaker 2:We didn't care about this. We just wanted to play and have fun. And the thing is is you don't have to care about it now. You can care about sports for 45 years, and then you can not care about.
Speaker 1:That's been my experience. I used to be so inundated with stuff and then I'm just like I don't really care about that stuff. Yeah, like I like bass, I love watching baseball. I'll go watch a baseball game, but I don't fall. I used to watch every single sports game that I could like. Oh, I'm gonna catch this, I'm gonna catch that, I'm gonna catch this, I'm gonna catch that made me really good at fantasy sports because I love analytics but, I just decided like this is just keeping me stuck right here.
Speaker 2:You're not able to create in that moment, you're simply consuming. And that is what our whole culture is, and I try to tell my kids hey, why don't you create instead of only consume?
Speaker 1:I try to do that with my kids there, yeah, man, but they fight back. Yeah, well, they fight back because everybody else, all their friends are doing this stuff and it's easier.
Speaker 2:It is easier, just like it's easier to point fingers, like it's easier to hate, it's easier to call names, it's easier to blame, then to take accountability, then to self reflect, then to Entertain yourself when you're bored. Because what's the first thing we do when we're bored? We go when we tell someone or we find the Clue, easiest distraction we possibly can to solve that boredom. We don't try to create some new Thing that would alleviate and add value to our life. We're just like get on my phone for 35 minutes.
Speaker 1:Imagine this and then we'll close that. Imagine this you're made in the image of the creator. That doesn't mean you look like him. That means that the creator creates. So guess what? You're a creator to be fulfilled, you have to create. Yes, consumption is not creation. No, it's not. And so, if there's anything that I could say to anyone, if you want to live a happier life, start creating things, whether it be conversations with people, whether it be pieces of art, whether it be music, whether it be Whatever you have to create something.
Speaker 1:You have to create something that wasn't there before. And, last thing, everything that exists was a thought.
Speaker 2:First, yes, it was everything was a thought first.
Speaker 1:So this is our imagination that has come to life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it was all created by us, that's wild, right it is, but I do. When you think about this, it's completely fascinating and it boggles my mind because you are living in like a minecraft, like we have self created this whole society, and then it's, it's everything right, it's it's Manorisms, it's cultural. You know, not appropriation, but just culture, like rituals, things that we do, the ways that we express ourselves. You know, it's just so fascinating. I love, I love humans in general. Oh, me too, because I I.
Speaker 1:I used to think that I was different than humans, and so I started reading books from the perspective of. There's this one book, what was it called?
Speaker 2:um.
Speaker 1:How like something hunting, like how to hunt a human or something like that, and it was from the perspective of the human as an animal and something was trying to track it to be able to hunt it. Interesting, blew my mind. I'm like, oh man, I'm just like that. So anyways, ben, thank you for coming on, man. I'd love to absolutely have you on again. Soon if you want to, but yeah, yeah yeah, absolutely have more conversations, but, uh, we went an hour, almost an hour and a half, on.
Speaker 2:This is 128, an hour 28 impressive, and so how many people will get all the way here?
Speaker 1:Look, I'm gonna be honest with you, I think most people. I usually get like 30, 40 downloads an episode and most of them are listen-throughs.
Speaker 2:I mean one or two of them is mine.
Speaker 1:I'm a fan of what I create.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hey, so think of a creation.
Speaker 1:This right here, this is creation. Think about being able to go and do something. Think about being able to go and do something and make something and to share with people that didn't exist before.
Speaker 2:That right there go do something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, go do something. I see your left hand a guitar over there. I'll bring mine next time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, well jam.
Speaker 1:But uh, yeah, thanks for hopping on with me, ben, and uh, and yeah, you have anything you want to share or say, or promote or do anything at all.
Speaker 2:I mean, nah, just I appreciate Having me on, I've enjoyed it. I would love to come back. Um, I do do lost connection tarot. You can come check it out right now. It's completely Like dead, dead silent. It's there, it's there, and I do have. I have feelings about it and I want to do something with it. Right now I still have friends. I have friends. I will call me and be like hey, help me with tarot. I just simply don't charge for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, maybe you shouldn't. Maybe you Doing it the way that you're doing it is actually serving you in a way, because you're serving your friends and serving the people.
Speaker 2:All I want at the end of the day is to To help people and I like doing it through tarot or conversation or the Socratic method or anything like that, like I don't need your money, I think it's all good.
Speaker 1:All right, man. Well, thank you again. I love you, brother. Thanks for coming on with me. Appreciate it, daniel.